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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:04 am 
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Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
http://www.tradetang.com/wholesale-Guitar_c2205.html

This is getting bad now, these Chinese manufacturers (and I use that term loosely) are flooding, and I mean FLOODING, the market with these Gibson, Fender, Gretsch and even Wolfgang models. Some of them are pretty easy to spot with the crazy colors and finishes, but others I wouldn't trust myself to spot even in person, I just haven't owned or studied Gibsons closely enough to be able to know the minutia.

Many of the copies are pretty clever, complete with Gibson Cases, and case candy. There is no honor in these items... but when has China showed any class in say, the last 30 years? I hope I don't come off as some racist or worse, but their track record of poisoning their own population, tainting products with toxins shipped world wide and basically rigging the game with respect to their currency has left a particularly bad taste in my mouth. It is becoming really hard to NOT buy items made in China, believe me I try at every opportunity, but its tough, and sometimes impossible not to. I would guesstimate that 85% of the stuff at Walmart is made in China (not that I ever go there), and Harbor Frieght (tool outlet) is almost all Chinese products. It just isn't fair (stomps feet). Typical quality is laughable, and if an item lasts for more than a year, well you got a good one.

At least the Japanese Guitars didn't have 'Gibson' on the headstock (that I know of), just a really class-less move by the Chinese to thumb their nose at others inventions. I mean show a little creativity and design your own stuff. You don't have to buy American, just try not to buy Chinese products people. OK, I'll get off my soapbox.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:24 am 
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Location: Tifton, Ga USA
:x :x :x Gibson should go after these guys like they did the Japanese. But times have changed and I guess that it would be political suicide to go after our dear communist friends, especially with the trade balance as it is today. This burns me up also. The US lawmakers have sold out to the highest bidder and allowed all of our production facilities outsource from overseas locations so we are just adding gas to the fire until we turn it back around. Sorry if I ranted but being a military man I don't believe we should finance our communist enemies. :x :x :down: :down:

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:08 pm 
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Location: Southern Indiana
Gibson does go after them so if you choose to buy one, you may not actually get it. I can't say for sure because I never had bought one. But they have been doing this for years now. Be careful of ANY US guitar that does not look right or the price is simply too good to be true, as it PROBABLY is! You can't legally sell them if you buy one for sure. You used to see lots of used ones for sale (some by crooks, and some by people that say I have a Chinese Gibson copy) and you don't see that often now. So I think they have been cracking down. But it is impossible to stop it without the Chinese enforcing US licensing. They do it with everything. Everything is made in China now - just about. Nothing is made in the US any longer. And Gibson gets a lot of their product (cheaper lines) from the Chinese. Heck, they own this country.

Have you played a Chinese guitar lately? Some are junk, and some are pretty darned good. They build an amazing guitar for $300. They have rapidly replaced Korea as the budget guitar manufacturing country. Heck, most electronic components are made there. Furniture is being made there. As you stated, the Walmart "buy-American" policy died with Sam Walton - just about everything in that store (or any large store) is made in China. They only thing that really isn't in a great way so far is FOOD. The American farmer is still efficient enough to keep it (mostly) local. Food has spoilage issues, and FDA issues. But, they did supposedly shoot some of the people responsible for that tainted milk scandal. Give them credit for swift justice on that one. Stuff like that happens in the US too - don't kid yourself.

It isn't just us too. When you buy a Chinese scooter for instance, they copy off of major Japanese mfrs. such as Honda. So much so, some models you could get replacement parts from your Honda dealer for your Chinese-made scooter. I was told that a cheap Chevy model (re-badged made in Korea) was also cloned by the Chinese. We have Rural King stores around here that sell Chinese Tractors. They are about 1/4 or less the cost of an American Tractor. You can't get parts for them (unless you can find out who they copied from and see if their parts match). Expect Chinese cars to be re-badged and sold as a Chevy or a Dodge - an inexpensive model. It will happen just like the Japanese and Korean models started selling here.

Whirlpool just closed down the plant that made the moderately priced refrigerators and moved it to Mexico. This town used to have 3 large Whirlpool factories when my father worked there with many thousands of employees, and now they have none. Well, to be correct there is a small contingent of engineers and that is it. You just can't buy American when there isn't any American product left. But American's won't be buying them if they have no place to work. It is SAD. The only American industries that are viable now are Entertainment, Pharmaceuticals, Food, and Defense. Is there anything else left? Very little manufacturing. Tech isn't manufactured here any longer. Computer companies only design and market, no one makes anything here. I know, I have worked for 3 of the largest - and it all is made in China now.

It is happening with tube guitar amps now. EVERYONE has a Chinese-made line now it seems and these amps are not that bad, and you can get a nice tube amp for $300 that does a lot of stuff. NO - it won't likely sound as good as the ones I build or even the ones that they copy off of but I can't even buy the parts for that money for mine. But it is a fact. You can buy a bunch of them. Heck they are so cheap people won't fix them any more. Is that Gibson 335 faded model worth $2299 at Guitar Center when there is a Chinese made Epiphone that looks just like it for $299? It the Gibson 9X better?

I don't have an answer, other than you had better get a job selling Chinese products or move to China. Things are tough here in the US. It seems the best you can hope for is to design products that are made someplace else.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:43 am 
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You must be near Evansville, Thorny. The plastics industry is hard hit there, with the foreign invasion.

People need to start reading where products are made, just like we look for calories and fat grams.

Once all the manufacturing jobs are gone, who will be left to pay taxes, and buy the imported products?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:34 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:05 pm
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Thorny wrote:
...I can't even buy the parts for that money for mine.


How do they even ship some of the low priced items to the US. It seems to me the shipping would cost more than some of these things.

I saw a review of one of these knock-off guitars on Ytube. There are usually serious design flaws that interfere with the way the guitar functions.

Edit: Forgot to ask--is there a difference in tone between a transformer wound with aluminum wire versus one wound with copper wire? I bet you get the cheapest compnoents with these low price amps.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:49 am 
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Communism+Free labor=cheap garbage :x :x :down:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:42 pm 
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Location: Amarillo, Texas USA
... and the beat goes on ...........

It's all about money and it's not ours anymore either.

Mortarman has said it all - and has the right to do so.

The politicians have sold us a bill of goods and now most the goods come from China.

It oughtta make some people mad enough to get out and vote, but then again a lot won't.

I'm off of my soapbox now.

RCSBlues :oops: :down:


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:58 pm 
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Location: Southern Indiana
Usually you DO get what you pay for -

The cheap amps usually sound that way. Some sound better than others do - and some are fairly well-made for modern production amps while others are not worth a darn.

Chinese transformers have been a real hit and miss kinda thing. Mostly a miss. Most don't sound great. But I have heard a few that sound great. For instance, some of the ones Weber sells sound pretty good, and some not as good. Generally, I like to use mercury magnetics for the best results, especially their output transformers. I use Heyboer too sometimes. I am less picky about power transformers if they supply the right voltage and are reliable, I am usually ok. Generally, you don't know until you build a lot of stuff with them. It is like everything else, you have to try them to know if you like them. Lots of components including former US name-brands come from China now.

Guitars - don't dismiss the Chinese Gibson Counterfeits as total junk though. They must be somewhat convincing because they fooled a LOT of people. I bet it is a LOT like that. I am sure some are junk, but I expect some are as good as the Epiphones - and some Epiphones aren't bad. If Epiphones had a gibson looking headstock on them and it said Gibson on it, it would likely fool a lot of people. I have a chinese made Epiphone Wilshire and I LIKE it. No one is trying to pass it off as a US-made wilshire - and it isn't really like the real ones i have played. Yes, it is a real Epiphone brand one, not a knock off - but it is made in China. I put a few upgrades on it, and it is a great guitar. You can buy one new for $299 at Guitar Center, and it is a GREAT guitar for the money. It is BETTER than the Japanese Epiphone Copies from the early 70s that I started out with that look like them. The Japanese ones had crummy keys, the pickups squealed, it had a bolt-on neck, and the bridge was not as nice. But that was the EARLY 70s. This new one has sealed keys, a good bridge, decent pickups, a set neck. It is supposedly made of mahogany too (not sure as it is painted, and I am sure it is probably made of a bunch of pieces, and probably not the finest grade mahogany).

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:05 pm 
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Washington borrows billions of dollars from the communist to fight the terrorists. What happened to good ole American built, American owned, and American quality. The best quality American items now are made by Americans for other Americans to blow away communist funded terrorists around the world. What a strange way to do business. Blast them, then rebuild them, then blast em again and then borrow more money to do it all over again. When will it end. Put Americans back to work here and invest in American manufacturing here again and see how fast it turns around. I guess I am done for this round, gotta borrow from the chinese to buy chinese ammo to reload and fight again another day. Semper Fi !!!!

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