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 Post subject: Intonation from Hell...
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:27 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:53 am
Posts: 97
Location: Mount Pleasant, SC
Am I mistaken or is this guy trying to pass this off as an original configuration. I believe these earliest LPs had a trapeze tailpiece like the L5 and L7. It looks like someone slapped a standard tune-o-matic tailpiece on backwards and reversed the strings over the top. How could this thing possibly be intonated? I think I will keep my $8500.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1953-GIBSON-LES-PAU ... 1c17cd2784

Correct rear end:

http://cgi.ebay.com/2009-GIBSON-52-LES- ... 35ae67505c

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:47 am
Posts: 1291
Location: Amarillo, Texas USA
Some of the early Les Paul Specials were sold like this with the wrap around bridge / stop tailpiece combination -

Check this out:

http://www.wernerg.com/Wheat/Wheat55.htm

It's amazing some of the things that were tried early in the game ...........

RCSBlues :oops: :up:


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:08 pm
Posts: 312
Location: Nashville, TN
It is obvious the trapeze was removed. Look at the picture of the strap button :) In either case, this guitar is worth $$$. It could be easily restored and they just don't make them like this anymore. I like the OLD Gibsons. Do a search on tdpri for a burst build by the user "Preeb". The Les Paul forum guys started referencing his posts on the Telecaster forum :blush:

The new ones just cost too much for what they are. This is not a knock on Gibson. Some of their new guitars are very, very nice. But living in Nashville and talking to some former employees, their quality control is just not where it used to be. I have heard many stories. At the same time, a buddy of mine with $$$ to burn has an incredible newer LP. It is a "true" Custom, not an off the rack Custom. Even still, the value is not there like the guitars from this forum.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:16 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:52 am
Posts: 1924
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
There is much controversy over exactly what Les Paul contributed to the guitar that bears his name (1952). The one absolute is that he insisted on the Bridge which he patented, a wrap-around combination bridge/tailpiece that actually had the strings running underneath the bar instead of on top, and yes it was a trapeze style. It was considered a critical flop by players and by 1953 it was wrapped over the bar. I think by 1955 the Tune-o-Matic replaces the funky wrap arounds.

Currently unmolested gold tops from this era can go for like $50,000, and they'll probably sit it some guys climate controlled guitar vault and never get played. A very cynical Mike.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:27 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:08 pm
Posts: 312
Location: Nashville, TN
I think he contributed the vision for the guitar and other than that it is one of the earliest, if not THE earliest endorsement deal. The guy was/is a deserved legend for his playing and recording innovations. I know I'm preaching to the choir though.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:10 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:50 pm
Posts: 1569
Location: New Jersey
Strings over the top of the tailpiece is "supposed" to improve sustain. Jimmy Page was one guy who did that. I currently have a Workingman set up that way and it does seem to add some sustain.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 1:43 am 
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Location: Hervey Bay, Australia
I dunno about that whole sustain thing, man - in a real world situation on stage at live volumes, who's gonna notice - or indeed care! - if your sustain is 80m/s longer than someone elses? And you can do the whole sustain thing with a compressor anyway these days if you're that way inclined! :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:22 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:50 pm
Posts: 1569
Location: New Jersey
corsair wrote:
I dunno about that whole sustain thing, man - in a real world situation on stage at live volumes, who's gonna notice - or indeed care! - if your sustain is 80m/s longer than someone elses? And you can do the whole sustain thing with a compressor anyway these days if you're that way inclined! :lol:


Agreed - I usually have no effects in the chain these days. I prefer to let the amp do the work (tube/speaker/reverb/trem). I have all the obligatory stomp boxes - including compressor, but just about the only ones I use at all are a Tube Screamer for boost and a wah.

I haven't decided yet if the wrapover has any adverse/positve effect on tuning or sustain. I thought the slight curve on the tailpiece would cause the strings to slip, the additional height would possibly not get along well with the saddles, and I wondered if the additional string length might do something with pitch (that should be just nut to saddle though right?). Well, tuning seems to be fine. If you tend to break strings near your bridge, ther may be an advantage to the reduced string angle between tailpiece and bridge. Other than that, if there is added sustain - it's minimal. I'll probably revert to normal through the tailpiece at next string change.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:09 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 7:54 pm
Posts: 419
In the new two-volume Les Paul book by his guitar tech...

http://www.amazon.com/Paul-Legacy-Compl ... 880&sr=1-7

it is stated that Les wanted the strings to wrap over the tailpiece. He relied on his palm to mute the strings and resting his palm on the tailpiece was part of that. The very first LPs were assembled with the strings wrapping under, so not only could you not mute with your palm, the angles were all wrong.

When it comes to the LP, success certainly has many fathers.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:59 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:47 am
Posts: 1291
Location: Amarillo, Texas USA
Sold for $8,000.00

RCSBlues :oops: :up:


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