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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:48 pm 
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Your pickup has not been potted.

With regards the sustain the MMK 45 was modelled on the early Dimarzio Distortion and both the MMK 45 & 53 have ceramic magnets, both have a resistance around 11 KOms ( although the 53 might be lower) , these can have a pull on the strings that will affect your sustain. Try lowering them away from the strings, that should help.

Incidentally it would not be a difficult task to make your MMK45 into a four conductor, because they are not potted it makes rewiring the bobbins easier.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:13 am 
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Location: San Rafael, CA
Thanks scotrock. Can you tell from the photos that the pickup hasn't been potted?

The seller of the MMK53 said it had 11.93k ohms. I measured it yesterday and got 12.38k ohms on one wire and 6.4k on the other wire. The lower number must be the split coil number.

I'll try lowering the pickups and see what happens. I had thought maybe they weren't high enough, since the Invicta needs more volume to approach the punch of my two Workingmans.

I recently read about rewiring a pickup for 4 conductor.
I think it was a post somewhere on these forums? I'll see if I can find it again. The only reason to do so is to replace one of the 45s with this earlier one, which Proendorser talked about sounding better than later ones. My idea was to put it in the neck position and the 53 at the bridge.

In the thread about which Electra sounds best to your ears, two or three people mentioned the Invicta, especially Chad. I would like to hear their feedback on this.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:48 am 
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Yes you can tell from the photo that it is not potted, what you would see would be the various elements shown in the photo coated in wax of some sort, whereas your clearly shows the coloured wires of the pickup bobbbins and no signs of wax anywhere..

The MMK53 does tend to vary in resistance over the production period but could be due to the position they were made for, the reason I say that is I have just checked one of my guitars it has MMK45's in it, the neck measures 10.6 and the bridge 11.4 KOhms, so there are definitely two models of MMK45's and as you see from my original post the MMK61's were the same.

Your choice of position for MMK's probably suit the purpose they were made for.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:43 am 
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Check your pots first before changing anything. Some guitars got 50k pots instead of the 500 k they were supposed to get. That might be all your issue is.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:55 am 
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Hey!

Right on, the earliest MMK45's seem to sound better. More clear, more full, more bitey. The guitar construction has much to do with it, as well. Pickups sound different in different guitars. Weird science, I know.

53's are among my favorite pups. They seem more aggressive than the 45's, not as hollow as a 45 can be. Very many prefer 45's however. Variety is the spice of life. :D

I have potted several sets of 45's and 53's with no noticeable loss of high end (which can be the danger of potting). If you record at home, you may never need to pot a pickup. If you play live, you very well may need to!

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:07 pm 
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Location: San Rafael, CA
Thanks scotrock and slmguy and Chad.

By the way Chad, there is still a listing on ebay for an MMK53, white. I posted it in the auction watch thread. I bought the black one the seller had.

The volume and two tone pots are all 500k. But I am starting to wonder if the wiring might be wrong. I played the guitar tonight and it sounded good, but with high volume settings. But when I switch to single coil it gets really thin and needs even more volume. I'm not talking about really high volume settings on the amp, but on the guitar and quite a bit higher on the amp than with my Workingmans and Super Rock 2245(Magnaflux pickups).
I also noticed a some noise when in the single coil mode only, so another thing to investigate.

I live on a small sailboat, so I don't play really loud, but probably louder than I probably should in consideration for my ears.
I still need to try lowering the Invicta's pickups, as scotrock suggested.

In my originaL post about my guitars, I mentioned that I might not keep the 2245 Super Rock, because the neck wasn't comfortable, a little thick and maybe a flatter fretboard radius than I'm used to. But I am getting used to it and love it. The sound is really good.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 6:15 am 
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A SAILBOAT! :love: That's cool.


Anyhow, can you post pics of the guitars on here?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 8:09 pm 
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Location: San Rafael, CA
I will post pics of my guitars soon.

The sailboat would be cooler if it was bigger and in the water. I live on it in the boatyard where I work as an independent shipwright. Long story, but it's been out of the water for more than a decade. My headquarters in the boatyard, and somewhere where I can let it rip on the guitars, rather than at a dock where others live on their boats.
I also crew with my captain friend on yacht deliveries up and down the west coast. San Francisco Bay - to or from Seattle area, southern California, Ensenada Mexico. Not real often, but about once a year.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 7:36 pm 
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Location: Indiana, US
scotrock wrote:
This is my first post on your forum and I do hope this particular part of your forum is still a live issue.

This history of MMK pickups is fascinating and resolves some of the issues I have had with a match set of what I thought were MMK pickups, they have been lying in one of my boxes for years.
As you can see from the images I have posted the pickups fall into the pre 80's era, they have the soldered nuts, the colour of the lead wires is also like other MMK pickups and they have a recognizable stamped model number and there are no MMK impressed marks.
So far so good, the issues that arise are two fold, firstly the number appears to be upsides down, is it a 61 of an unknown model 19, the other issue is the construction of these two pickups has an uncanny resemblance to pickups made by Nisshin Onpa or more popularly Maxon, the leaking gope from the screws is a Maxon characteristic! The pickups are in the PAF range with the bridge at 8.30 KOhms and the neck at 7.96 KOhms, both have a coils split.

I would be obliged if your knowledgeable forum members would have a look at the images and let me know their thoughts on the pickups, are the MMK or Maxon.

To add to the confusion this website say that the Matsumoku made Riviera 1975-79 had Maxon MMK61 fitted (http://epiphonewiki.com/index.php/Riviera), this would suggest that MMK pickups were being made as early as 1975.


Image, Image
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Hey scotrock,

I have a question I'm hoping you can help me with. I have a set, (bridge/neck) of MMK61's (came out of a late 70's Epiphone Riviera, Japan) that look exactly like one of yours. It has a bare, red and white lead coming from it (grey sleeve over all three of those wires). I believe the bare goes to ground on the pots but am having a heck of a time identifying where the white and red go? I'm putting them in a custom build, two volumes, one tone and a three way switch if that helps?

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated as there is NO info I can find on this subject.

A thousand thank you's!


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:04 pm 
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White is the full value signal, red is the coil cut wire and the shield is, as you say, the earth.

White wires go to the respective volume pot, then to the selector switch which sends the signal to the tone pot and thence to the output jack. The red wire generally sends half the signal to earth, thus "coil cutting" so they go to a switch that does just that. That switch can eithr be mounted on the back of the volume pots, or as a separate switch mounted on the control deck.

If you Google "2h/b, 2 vol, 1 tone coil tap" you'll find more info that you know what to do with!!

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:42 am 
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corsair wrote:
White is the full value signal, red is the coil cut wire and the shield is, as you say, the earth.

White wires go to the respective volume pot, then to the selector switch which sends the signal to the tone pot and thence to the output jack. The red wire generally sends half the signal to earth, thus "coil cutting" so they go to a switch that does just that. That switch can eithr be mounted on the back of the volume pots, or as a separate switch mounted on the control deck.

If you Google "2h/b, 2 vol, 1 tone coil tap" you'll find more info that you know what to do with!!




Thank you, Corsair! I really appreciate it! Still stumped on one part though... I'm not, 'coil cutting/coil tapping' the pickups. So, does the red then go to ground/earth with the bare? Thank you again!!!!


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 5:28 am 
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Just tape the end of the red up and fold it back along the cable and tape it in position, make sure it does not come in contact with any of the other circuit or the shielding if you have any.

As Corsair says it dumps one of the coil to earth so all you are doing is stopping it doing that.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 8:03 am 
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scotrock wrote:
Just tape the end of the red up and fold it back along the cable and tape it in position, make sure it does not come in contact with any of the other circuit or the shielding if you have any.

As Corsair says it dumps one of the coil to earth so all you are doing is stopping it doing that.




Thanks so much for clearing that up, scotrock! Between you and Corsair that clears everything up and answers all my questions! Excited to start soldering this evening! Again, thank you both for the quick replies!!! -CANDO


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