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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:09 pm 
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YUP


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:58 pm 
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what an informative thread. :up:
Thank you for sharing your thoughts guys I really learned a lot. :D


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:47 am 
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santana08 wrote:
what an informative thread. :up:
Thank you for sharing your thoughts guys I really learned a lot. :D


But wait, there's more! I fully intend to keep updating as I go ahead with the fix. I've been gathering the materials and tools needed to make the clamping jig that will hold the guitar body. I cut out some plywood yesterday that will serve to help clamp the guitar in the jig. As I get it more complete I'll post pictures.

I'm pretty confident that it will work provided that I can get the glue loose, and that I can reinforce the neck block if/when I get it back into the proper position. I did notice that since I removed the hack job screws through the top of the body that the neck block has in fact collapsed further, so something has to be done...


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:59 am 
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electrafied wrote:
santana08 wrote:
what an informative thread. :up:
Thank you for sharing your thoughts guys I really learned a lot. :D


But wait, there's more! I fully intend to keep updating as I go ahead with the fix. I've been gathering the materials and tools needed to make the clamping jig that will hold the guitar body. I cut out some plywood yesterday that will serve to help clamp the guitar in the jig. As I get it more complete I'll post pictures.

I'm pretty confident that it will work provided that I can get the glue loose, and that I can reinforce the neck block if/when I get it back into the proper position. I did notice that since I removed the hack job screws through the top of the body that the neck block has in fact collapsed further, so something has to be done...



electrafied wrote:
mcbrat wrote:
because the back of the body has warped too as it was collapsing on the front...


Well, I'm not so sure of that actually. I don't see any warp in the back of the heel where it meets the body like I would expect, not even finish cracking or anything. And by looking at the heel block itself you can see that it is 3 pieces (see the first pic). And it may be that the center piece came unglued from the pieces on either side of it (looks like more glue was added to stop that from happening further).

But if that was the case I wouldn't expect it to have taken the sides that meet the heel with it and caused them to buckle underneath the top of the body.


it won't show any cracking as it's on the "outside" of the arc that it's collapsing on, but I can guarantee it is happening...

can you take a straigh side on piccture to show the angle of the neck pocket in relation to the overall body?

since it's started to shift again, I think when you do get it shifted back into proper position, you probably will need to redrill the hole where it goes thru the former screw holes into the body block, and dowel it to help hol it in place... or replace the screws and fill over them as best you can...

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:10 am 
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mcbrat wrote:

it won't show any cracking as it's on the "outside" of the arc that it's collapsing on, but I can guarantee it is happening...

can you take a straigh side on piccture to show the angle of the neck pocket in relation to the overall body?

since it's started to shift again, I think when you do get it shifted back into proper position, you probably will need to redrill the hole where it goes thru the former screw holes into the body block, and dowel it to help hol it in place... or replace the screws and fill over them as best you can...


Yeah, I can attempt to capture a pic that shows the angle. Not sure it will show clearly, but you can tell by the way the block is constructed that it is in the midst of failing. The first pic in the post shows the 3 piece block and the center piece is coming loose (5th picture clearly shows that), and you can see that the wood that formed the top of the body over the block is deformed.

I did indeed intend to dowel where the screws were inserted to give more support. I hope that I can do some finish touch-ups to make it look not so hacked up. I'm also going to try to fashion some kind of extra blocking to add to the inside of the body at the base of the heel block.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:53 am 
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yes, the block is failing from the pressure tipping the neck pocket forward... actually, that failure has probably actually prevented worse problems...

I wonder if using some steam on the inside of the back to help "reset" the back into the proper position would help? though the heat may do the same trick.. sort of how warpedneck.com does a heat treatment to rest the bow of a neck....

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:21 pm 
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Steam and Heat should both be considered enemies of wood. Steam would try to expand and heat would contract. The more I look at this the more I think you might need to cut away the block from inside bit by bit until you can get the heel either detached or prepped enough for a new block. Not much room to work in there so maybe something can be done from outside??? I've had a few passing thoughts about the possibility of a threaded rod the whole length of the body - strap button to neck heel - but at that point you might as well take off the top and glue in a full maple block.

Your last picture - because of the way the binding sort of overhangs into space on the trble side - makes me think that whole block just needs to be tapped out of the body 1/4 inch or so and secured preferably with glue only. If the neck is in place is the scale length correct?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:41 pm 
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Jead wrote:
I've had a few passing thoughts about the possibility of a threaded rod the whole length of the body - strap button to neck heel - but at that point you might as well take off the top and glue in a full maple block.


Hmm, I hadn't though of reinforcing it with a rod, though I don't know how much support it would have at strap button side. There is obviously a block there, I just can't tell how substantial. And there is a square rod propping up where the bridge goes, so I'd have to offset the rod or have some kind of double rod going on there so the support would be evenly distributed.

You know, I had though of doing a 335 style conversion, but I think that is a bit beyond my repair skills at the moment. And the more I think about it the more I'd like to keep it "original".

Jead wrote:
Your last picture - because of the way the binding sort of overhangs into space on the trble side - makes me think that whole block just needs to be tapped out of the body 1/4 inch or so and secured preferably with glue only. If the neck is in place is the scale length correct?


Yes, the scale length is correct, and can be macro-adjusted as it has a floating bridge. But the way the block is now the neck would need more that 5mm of shimming to get the action even close.

I'm going to move forward with trying to unglue the block and reset it, possibly with extra support if I can figure out how. If that doesn't work I think I'll attempt to remove enough of the existing block to fashion a new one with a bit more support...


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:24 am 
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mcbrat wrote:
can you take a straigh side on piccture to show the angle of the neck pocket in relation to the overall body?


So I worked on the clamping jig a bit last night and have the first half done, the part that will actual hold the guitar. I took a look at the neck block from the side and if I took a picture of it I don't think it will really reveal anything about the angle it is at compared to the angle it should be at (to the untrained eye it actually looks like it would be fine how it is).

What I'm going to do is finish the part of the jig that I hope will help "convince" the block to go back to where it should be once I get the glue loose. I should be able to take pics then that will clearly show where the angle is now and where it needs to be adjusted to be correct (I've devised it in my head such that I'll be able to tell when I've got it in the right position, hopefully it will work in practice!)...


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:48 pm 
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It's good to have a plan - and you seem to have a good idea of what you want. Keep us informed.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:55 pm 
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OK, initial pics of the clamping jig. Right now I just have it so it will hold the body. I haven't yet done the part that will bolt onto the block and leverage it back once the glue is unset. Basically I will cut a length of wood that will attach to the block similar to how the neck would, and at the end of that block a threaded rod attached to the base of the jig will allow me to slowly crank the block back into the correct angle. I do plan on putting some support underneath the block on the back of the body to keep from damaging anything there.

I'll attach another length of wood from the block over the body at the height that the surface of the fretboard would be at long enough to reach where the bridge sits, that should indicate when I've got the block at the correct angle as I can measure it directly with the bridge in place...

Image

Image


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:31 pm 
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Alright, I've got my glue and some naphtha (for cleaning the body when I'm ready to put her back together). I've got some work to do on the jig still. And I just temperature tested the desk lamp I'd like to use to re-melt the current glue. It looks like it can get up to 152 degrees (maybe hotter right under it) which I think might be hot enough. It's been cooking my thermometer for about an hour or so now...


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:45 pm 
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When I used a lamp to soften glue I put some tin foil loosely over areas I did not want to be affected by the heat - just for a little added protection. It seemed to work just fine.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:16 am 
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Jead wrote:
When I used a lamp to soften glue I put some tin foil loosely over areas I did not want to be affected by the heat - just for a little added protection. It seemed to work just fine.


Good tip, I'll probably do just that to protect the edges of the binding closest to the neck pocket. My only concern would be that the heat from the lamp was very localized to directly under it, but I really need to get the glue melted right under that binding to see if I can get the edges of the body even with the top again. I might recruit a couple other incandescent lamps to provide supplemental heat to those parts.

Is it strange that the closer I get to actually implementing the fix the more nervous I become? Not necessarily from fear that I'll mess something up, it already is pretty much unusable now. Maybe it's more "anxious that it won't actually fix the problem" and I've been looking forward to the fact that I might actually get it repaired acceptably?


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